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over and so i'm wondering if you have

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ever heard of something like that or

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seen anything like that and if it would

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show up in the

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um mri imaging

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yes as a matter of fact one of the

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experiments we we usually do to test the

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scanner is a finger tapping experiment

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and when we do finger tapping on off we

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get activation and a lot of times we'll

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we'll get bilateral activation but it

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will be stronger

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on the contralateral hemisphere

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but i can understand that there could be

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some people that have homolateral

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activation

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but the usual case the usual brain

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is for contralateral activation if you

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do your right hand you usually get

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left-sided activation that's the usual

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case

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todd

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think that the

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setup of your eeg experiment where you

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had all your monitoring equipment

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directly in line in between the sender

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and receiver may have

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not given you such good results as if

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they'd have been separate in a different

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way

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yeah are you asking because they're in

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line or yeah right nick you're you know

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you're

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the center and the receiver are on the

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same straight line as

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as your electronic monitoring equipment

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right is that is that true uh that was

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pretty much true they were three rooms

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in a row

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but there was quite a big distance

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between

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the the so that in that diagram they

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looked close together but there was

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quite a big distance those were pretty

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big rooms that there were in between

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i wonder if you might have any uh

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speculation or explanation perhaps why

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uh i believe the hawaiian situation was

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healers

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why there would be a strong response or

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noticeable response in the deep in the

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optical

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region

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of the brain

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so that's a good question why in the

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optical region

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one of my explanations is that there's

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some imagery involved

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so so maybe what's happening is that the

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healers are invoking an imagery process

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in the receiver

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so so the the truth is

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in normal visual experiments if a human

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will

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picture an event

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and just make an image in his mind the

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brain activates as if he's really seen

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the picture

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so so it's a very close coupling in the

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brain between reality

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and just thinking about a picture so if

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you think of a face

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you'll activate

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the fusiform

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as if you were really looking at a face

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even though you're just thinking about a

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face so i think it's the imagery that's

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being evoked

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i'm curious

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how the sender

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identifies the receiver

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not just in your talk but in previous

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ones as well but

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in some cases clearly you have them

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connected by circuitry in other cases

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they're in separate rooms

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so i could imagine the sender would know

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the person's name perhaps it would know

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the location might be thinking

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geospatially as to all person located

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there or might be thinking oh fred what

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what is the sender

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doing mentally to identify the receiver

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well that's a good question before they

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started the experiment we had

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the healer spend some time with the

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sender

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so they they they were in

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they spent some time together

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you know getting to know each other and

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so that so that the sender really did

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have a good impression about who the

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sender the receiver was

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so they did spend some time together

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before they separated

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but we've done it both ways if the

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sender doesn't know

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the receiver it it doesn't work as well

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it it almost doesn't work

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nearly as well

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as when the send the sender knows pretty

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well the receiver does that answer your

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sorry i uh

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i'm having a bit of deja vu here and

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wishing i could get at my reference

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library because i seem to remember but

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i'm blocking on details that quite

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recently there's been another fmri study

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that

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garnered some publicity for claiming to

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have refuted the whole esp concept once

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and for all and showing no correlation

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between senders and and receivers in an

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esp task really um do you know who the

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author was

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that's why i wish i could get at my

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library to check

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oh really

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well i could i can picture in

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an environment when nothing would work

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you can sabotage the environment

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and make it so nothing works

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i mean several people here have

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mentioned that the environment is very

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important

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in how you set up the experiment

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and so i think that the environmental

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impact can influence how well

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so i i can understand how there could be

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a

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result

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i'm curious in what way were the alpha

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waves linked do they have the same

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frequency were they

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synchronized or how how did that work

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the alpha ways were linked in the way

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that they differed between the flicker

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on state and the flicker off state

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so we were comparing the alpha

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amplitude between

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on and off

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and and that

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distance and that difference

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between those two states is what we used

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amplitude

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um i had a question about the receivers

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i mean who were they

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what were they told did they have a

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background of meditation or they were

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they involved with the healers or were

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they just some people off the street

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that were that they grabbed

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the receivers the receivers yeah the the

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receivers were chosen

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as far as i know by the healer but but i

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i'd have to ask genie that that question

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i i'm i'm not entirely sure sure how

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they were chosen but i do know that they

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they did spend time with the healer

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before they went in the scanner so so

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that the healer did have a really good

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uh relationship with them before they

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went into the scanner

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and imaging than a sort of part of this

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healer's idea so they could be

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transmitted to the receiver if they talk

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to each other

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what's your question well if the healers

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are into imaging

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then if they discuss talked it over with

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the receivers then

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that may help explain why it's

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uh

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of the brain oh i see what you mean i i

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okay

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because it's it's

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todd that was a great presentation thank

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you thank you

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i happen to have talked to jeannie

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ochterberg about

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how those subjects were chosen and she

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says that

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the healers were asked to recruit a

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subject with whom they had worked in the

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past

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and had some sort of empathic emotional

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connection

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uh and so the empathic

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component to the whole deal

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seems to be really crucial about what

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you found

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and it seems to me that uh these

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large-scale double-blind healing studies

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where you have typically strangers

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praying for strangers

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completely subvert

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one of the

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necessary factors at least uh in your

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study

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right uh so

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it that's probably uh

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a great shortcoming of the double-blind

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randomized uh

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study as it's done in in in many places

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right that's so important for the healer

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and the receiver to to have a good

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relationship and empathic emotional type

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of connection

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and uh in the follow-up study that you

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all did i understand that that empathic

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bond simply wasn't there

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because these uh in the rerun of the

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study the healers did not know

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the uh

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there was one where genie did one where

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they didn't know each other is that

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right yeah and that that showed no

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significance it was a flop it was a flop

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so so that makes sense to me why this

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other person got a negative result when

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if they didn't set it up a good

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connection between the healer and the

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receiver that's so crucial

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and and i know you do that with your

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work too right you you make you

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establish a good connection

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right in your work

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yeah

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could you talk about the control

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aspects of this

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on the first experiment